Hi Janet! I'm beyond grateful for you being here, and I really appreciate you trusting me and sharing your story. I think it would be fun for the readers to start with how we actually met. It was a start up event, which we both attended, and there was a board where you could leave your contact details saying how you could help other businesses, which I did, not really expecting anything since it was a tech event. How surprised I was when I saw your details attached to my note! Could you please tell us what actually made you leave your contact details for me?
Do you know, I probably left only two contact details that night. I was late (laughs), and I didn't feel that I connected with many people at the event because I came in a bit later than everyone else. At the event, you had to go to two boards where you could leave your name: one said, "What I can offer," and the other one said, "What can be offered to me." And it was the very first event I had ever been to with Geek Auckland. I've never been before. I'd been thinking about what I wanted to do, but I hadn't actually ventured out. So it was a night of actually stepping into something.
I didn't quite understand what it meant to actually tell my story until we talked (laughs). I've never been interviewed before, and I'd never had to tell my story outside of my very small circle of friends and family. So I left my name. I am a great believer in the Universe actually bringing the right things and pointing you in the right direction. All you have to do is just be present. So I don't want to say that it was an intentional thing on my part. I think, as Paulo Coelho says, “The universe conspires.” And so there's an element of the universe conspiring on my behalf for that.
I mean, I've been thinking about this all week. It's this idea of what I'm going to say and being present in thinking about it, which I don't think I have had to do for a very, very long time. So I think it was just a point in time, but there's been a catalyst for the last three or four weeks that has then intertwined our lives to actually get to this point. So it wasn't just one event. There's an expanse to it.
Yeah, I agree so much! For me, it actually took a few months of different events happening to then get this invite out of the blue, and I decided to go just because. I thought, "I'm building a business, so I should go and practise my entrepreneurial skills." And then I thought, "I should leave my contact details on that board." I was so surprised and excited when I saw your name pinned to my note on the board!
All right, could you tell us about yourself, where you are from, and how your background has shaped you?
I am originally from Kenya, on the east coast of Africa. I grew up in a household of five; my mom and dad had five kids, and I'm right smack in the middle. I am the only child of my parents who never immigrated, and I left home when I was very, very young, which is crazy because it was the kind of place where everybody stayed home and didn't necessarily ever leave. My siblings don't live far away from where my parents used to live, so there's an element even now that makes me feel like an outsider.
It's amazing being so far away from home and experiencing the same feeling I had surrounded by people who looked and spoke exactly like me. That same feeling I have outside of home, so there's a familiarity to it.
I think the only difference is that sometimes there's an expression on the outside of me that other people react to and interact with in the same way. "Where are you from?"—which is a very simple question but can be very triggering because it's trying to find the axis of where you call home. If home is not home, and this isn't home, where’s home?
How has that shaped me? I feel like I’ve watched the world with an outsider's perspective, so I never feel like I'm on the inside. It's not that I am not present, but I feel like I am able to observe the world from the outside in. It fascinates me because I have a lot of people who say they're my friends, but I wouldn't say that I let them into my world. So I am a friend to outsiders, but they're not necessarily friends to me. I feel like I can sit with people from different creeds and be present with them, especially if they're grappling with something. There's an element of openness that is, "Oh, I get that," you know, when someone's actually struggling. Because when you've traversed the world almost parallel to it, your view of it is very different. You're not sucked into that limit of the world.
I come from a very rich cultural background. The sense of self is completely entwined with everyone, where I am part of the very past and part of the absolute future. So there is no back or forth. There is just this moment here and knowing, just knowing. But also knowing that you don't belong in this space, that you belong to every space that's been, every space that's going to come, but you're present here at the moment.
That's so powerful… Could you tell us a bit more about your life and what brought you to New Zealand?
I went to Australia to study, and I became a very young parent, so I was trying to go through university, got married really young, and came to New Zealand on holiday with my ex-husband and never left. Australia was quite a challenging place to live. We lived in Sydney; it was very, very challenging. There was an element of coming to New Zealand for a week, then going to Fiji, and then going to Kenya for four weeks, and we knew when we were leaving Kenya that we would never go back to Australia again. And it was that simple. It was actually that simple. There was a part of being in New Zealand that felt completely encompassing. I have struggled with a lot of elements of being in New Zealand, but I haven't struggled with calling it home.
What was challenging in Australia?
Being in Australia as a student, I was paying for my school fees and trying to raise a child, and life was so fast-paced. There was never any time for socialising or just taking time to slow down. When we first arrived in New Zealand, there was almost a sigh of relief—not in a physical sense, but it was palpable. And even when we came back, we never felt like we were on a treadmill again. Despite raising a four-year-old, it didn't feel the same way as it did in Australia.
I see. What would you say has been the greatest challenge in living abroad and away from your home country?
I think that living away from home, I've had to hide so many parts of myself in the outside world to try and fit in. It's a cross I have to carry on a regular basis, even now. I left behind my language, I left behind my food. I left behind my music. I left behind people who looked and talked and joked in a way close to my heart, and their culture is very, very different. Trying to cover those parts of myself in private and then showing up outside of my private setting to be in the other world is almost like living two lives at the same time.
Someone will tell you that when I'm in my private space, I will sing my Kenyan music, eat my Kenyan food, and speak my Kenyan language, and then I'll be a completely different person outside. And then trying to tell the people at home to feed me with that, because they can't see it—they can only hear it in my voice. It's really hard to keep that growing in private. So, fitting in has probably been the biggest challenge I've encountered.
I understand (both laugh). Hopefully, it goes away with time.
Yeah. As I've gotten older, I've become more comfortable; my worldview is very different. The worldview I grew up in is very different from the worldview I live in now. I'm getting more comfortable in my skin and saying that's not my worldview, and I know that that's probably a strength. It's my authenticity showing up as myself that then becomes a positive, as opposed to trying to hide it.
Absolutely. Do you mind telling us about the beautiful project you have in mind and have been working on?
Sure. I found out yesterday, actually, that as of 2018, there are only 324 Kenyans who have come from Kenya to live in New Zealand. The population of Kenya is somewhere around 56 million people. There are so many beautiful, highly intelligent, highly qualified people who probably need to step off the treadmill of running from one place to another, come in and work in this beautiful country. There aren't as many opportunities there as there are in New Zealand.
New Zealand has an ageing population, and we need doctors and specialised professionals. I have worked in hospitals since 2001, and my partner is an engineer—and those are two fields we are both very familiar and comfortable with. So, I would like to start an establishment or a business where we recruit Kenyan professionals to come to New Zealand.
And then I can have more Kenyans (both laugh). I can talk to more people, eat more food, and dance to Kenyan music with other Kenyans. I'd love to see little Kenyan babies being born in this country. The other thing is that there's also an exchange of cultures. That's where the world is going. So I would love to expand this to include many, many more things, but that is where I'd like to start.
That's beautiful. Businesses with a meaningful mission and people behind them who are driven and have a purpose are, I believe, destined to be successful.
Amen (both laugh).
All the best to you in this endeavour; I look forward to seeing it happen. I'd like to circle back to you and your personality. Would you mind telling us about your strengths? You've already mentioned one—being unafraid of not fitting in and being yourself. What else?
I'd say if there was a way I could live in the world as a student forever, I would love to do that. I love to learn, and because of that, I'm very curious. But curiosity is a funny thing; you start delving into “Tell me more. What does that look like? How does that feel?”... I'd say I'm very inquisitive.
I'm very friendly. I'm probably more friendly outwardly than I am inwardly. So I am happy to be friendly to people, but I don't know that I'm actually friendly in letting people in. I'm a bit hesitant with that, and that's probably something I've done to try and protect myself—living in two worlds and trying to make sense of it all.
I have a heart for people. I just do. In my upbringing, there's no element where you, Katya, are separate from me. So when I see people, I don't see them as separate from me. I see people as parts of me that are showing up in the world. So I have a heart for people.
I am integrous, sometimes to my own detriment. It matters to me that the spirit of something is upheld at all times. And sometimes that comes across as hesitant to tell the truth. But again, living very far away from home, the sense of safety can become very small. People can't quite understand you. So when I say I'm integrous, I mean there are things that are non-negotiable for me.
And what are your weaknesses?
Well, I have a very loose relationship with time (both laugh). My partner would tell you this. I am known to change my mind very often, and that can be very frustrating for a lot of people. I do not believe this is a weakness; I think that the more we socialise it, the more we're going to actually be okay with it. I think that people should change their minds more.
And unfortunately, sometimes I don't know when to say no. I care so much about what other people are experiencing, to my own detriment. Only when the wheels have come off and everybody's saying, "You're spiralling," does it become obvious to me that I'm really, really spiralling. Having good people around me who tell me, "You need to step away, you're not okay," has been a blessing.
What do you value in people the most?
I think the essence of who they are. Sometimes people don't know who they are, which I should say is also my weakness, because I can see, quote-unquote, "potential" in terms of relationships that sometimes can come to my own detriment. But I actually believe that people are generally really, really good, and only hurt people hurt people. And all of us are hurt; just the degree can be quite different. So I just love the essence of humanity when people just show up as themselves.
Beautiful. Are there any qualities, though, that you resent in people? That make you upset?
I think there are a couple of things. One of them is arrogance. I was reading the other day that there are people who have an inherent belief, which means it's an unquestionable belief, that they're superior to other people. That's a fascinating thing, to actually think that there's someone who genuinely believes that they are better than someone else when, in essence, you can never be more human than anyone else on the face of the Earth. So that one I struggle with because arrogance is really, really hard to penetrate. Ignorance sometimes is frustrating too, because we're surrounded by so much knowledge and information. I don't know that in today's day and age, we have any place for ignorance. I'm ignorant about some things, but I'm open to learning. Ignorance, arrogance, and disrespect are things that frustrate me.
Do you have moments of self-doubt, and how do you overcome them?
Ironically, I don't have moments of self-doubt when it's just me (both laugh). If I am convincing myself of something, I do not have a problem thinking maybe this is a bad idea. However, as we live in relationships in this world, quite often my sense of doubt comes from outside more than it does from inside, if that makes sense. Which is crazy, because a lot of people actually doubt themselves.
I can back myself up 100%. I have no problem with that. If I'm in a relationship with someone else, whether it's work or personal, and then they show doubt, then I start doubting too.
But if it's just me, and you tell me, "Do you think we're gonna make it?" Yep, I'm 100% sure. And if we don't make it, I have a lot of patience for myself. I don't judge myself. I just don't have it in me. I can be down, and I can say, "This is not going well," but I'll be like, "It was a bad situation. You did your best."
How do you recharge?
I read a lot, I listen to a lot of stuff, good and bad, and I'm in my head a lot. So doing mundane stuff at home while I'm listening to audiobooks, whether it's cooking or cleaning or ironing—away from people—I do not deem to be energy-sapping. It's actually something that helps realign the world for me: cleaning, cooking, pottering… Gardening and being in the garden have been a godsend for the last two and a half years. Just digging holes and cutting things up and spending three hours on the lawn mower where there's nothing else you can do but just be on the lawn mower for three hours, right? (laughs). And so it just dissipates a lot of the energy because you can't spend your energy elsewhere other than at that point.
What is happiness?
I don't know. I grew up with a dad who was probably the most content person I ever met. He was happy to be in nothing, and he was happy to be in something, and both were exactly the same. As a kid, I watched this person who could have been, you know, doing the most mundane task and being so content in where they were at that point in time, while also having a childlike expression of being in that moment. So whether it was being at an airport and being completely childlike or being in the garden and being completely childlike, observing that is what probably would look like happiness to me—this idea of being there and being okay about being there, whatever that is.
And when you feel happy, what is it?
My internal landscape feels like, "Yeah, this place." Where there's no strife, there's no trying, there's just being. And I know when I'm just being, because there's a special sense; it's almost like a dissipation… like when you see the effervescence of a thing, like when you throw a bath bomb in the water and it's just bubbling—that inside of me—that feels like happiness, if that makes sense.
What is love to you?
Wow, wow… So I want to say that I have a different view of love, and that I believe that the definition of love is very limited in the world that I live in. I see that you can love something or someone at a point in time, and that doesn't have to have a full continuation. It can just be a point in time. I believe that you can have completeness in love when you have someone who cares for you, not necessarily romantically. It could be someone who sees you, absolutely sees you for who you are, and doesn't require you to be anything other than that. And that could be a sibling, it could be a friend, it could be a lover, it could be your dog. It could be whatever it is that can accept you fully for who you are without needing to put any mask on it. That's love. To be seen, to be heard, to be believed, that every element of you is accepted here—that's love.
If you met your younger self today, what would you tell her?
Stop hiding. Stop hiding behind big books, behind big words—you've got it. And what I said before about the fact that we tend to put a lot of focus on time—every part of me, whether it is my younger or older self, has been before and is going to be in the future. So it's okay to feel what you're feeling right now. That's what I would say to her.
Do you have a motto or a quote that inspires you every day?
Recently, I've been thinking a lot about the philosophy of Ubuntu, which is an African philosophy that means "I am because we are." The essence of who I am is in every human being. And when I can see that and embody that, then when I meet someone who is less than grateful or less than gracious, I can steel myself to say, "Not every day is a good day."
In saying that, I live in a world where there can be a lot of that happening, and boundaries are something I've been learning a lot about. So if I'm choosing not to be an unruly five-year-old, then so can you. Those two things.
And to finish up, what is the greatest thing that you're looking forward to in the near future?
Oh, wow. I'm really looking forward to growing the business. I'm looking forward to meeting lots of new people. It's amazing to think that six or seven weeks ago, the likelihood of me sitting here with you was zero to none. So stepping out and meeting people and hearing people's stories. Hearing your story, hearing where you've come from—this idea that the world is so disconnected is fascinating. Because in reality, it's not disconnected at all, and all we have to do is step out from our phones and actually have a conversation. I'm looking forward to having lots and lots of different conversations with lots of different people.
Beautiful. Thank you so much.
This interview was conducted a few months ago. Recently I sent its draft to Janet and received the lovely response below with an update on Janet’s beautiful business initiative:
Hi Katya,
I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for the amazing story you wrote. You truly captured the essence of who I am in the interview, and I am incredibly grateful for that. I also wanted to express my gratitude for spending the morning with you on Sunday—it was so soulful and heartwarming 🧡💛💚💙
I’m excited to update you on my business journey! I have officially launched Global Talent Pathways New Zealand (www.globaltalentpathwaysnz.com). We are now working on growing our following and presence as we embark on this new entrepreneurial journey.
To give you a bit more context about Global Talent Pathways, we are an education agency that focuses on helping African students achieve their educational dreams by facilitating their journey to study in New Zealand. Our services are comprehensive, covering everything from course selection and applications to visa processing and settlement support in New Zealand.
Our mission is to ensure that these students have a seamless experience, with personalized guidance every step of the way. We aim to bridge the gap between African talent and the world-class educational opportunities available in New Zealand. By doing so, we hope to create a vibrant community of African students and professionals who can contribute significantly to both their home countries and New Zealand.
It’s an exhilarating time for us, and I’m looking forward to seeing how this venture unfolds. I’m thrilled to be part of this journey and can’t wait to make a positive impact on the lives of many aspiring students.
Thank you again for everything. I look forward to staying connected and sharing more as things progress.
Warm regards,Janet
